Construction is a challenging industry where human creativity works magic, turning engineering and architectural plans into actual structures.
And while they make building something easy from the ground up, hidden beneath the surface lies a maze of intricate project management complexities that you won't find in other industries.
With so many moving parts and a heavy reliance on subcontractors, success requires skillful coordination of teams, schedules, and resources.
So what can you do to ensure success in this industry that demands effective management of both people and processes?
In today's episode, John Glover and I explore the complexities within the construction industry and break down the project and people management success strategies that you can also use for your business.
John Glover is a Small Business Coach, Fractional COO and Integrator, Personal Growth Consultant, and founder of Core Integration Coaching.
He helps entrepreneurs, business partners, organizations, and individuals develop a roadmap to get what they want from their business and their life.
As a passionate coach and facilitator, he's helped many set strategic goals, develop customized plans, and execute more effectively to obtain their desired results.
We discuss:
03:54 Managing people in construction is challenging without proper processes and communication.
05:47 Establishing core values is crucial for a company's moral compass and identifying ideal employees.
08:12 Use an accountability chart, define roles, align values, and communicate clearly to avoid issues.
14:17 The steps to prevent mistakes and misquotes that can affect your profitability.
16:35 Small business owners need to delegate responsibility.
19:23 Small businesses benefit from the EOS platform when addressing major issues by implementing regular meetings, setting clear expectations, and having an effective onboarding process.
30:15 Build supplier relationships by aligning core values via due diligence and clear communications.
32:53 Vet subcontractors, like employees, assess if they're the proper fit through (legitimate) testimonials and address any issues quickly.
39:02 Accountability provides a framework that balances structure and autonomy, allowing individuals to thrive and solve problems within boundaries.
42:14 Creating a strong people process with a structured onboarding system is crucial to help you find, train and keep the right employees and drive growth and success.
Resources:
John Glover, Coach, Fractional COO & Integrator, Core Integration Coaching:
https://coreintegrationcoaching.com/
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-glover
Schedule a Discovery Call with John:
https://coreintegrationcoaching.com/contact-me
Email:
john@coreintegrationcoaching.com
Kathy Svetina, Fractional CFO:
https://www.newcastlefinance.us/
Blog post | Industry Deep Dive - Construction: How to Effectively Manage Subcontractors Using EOS
https://www.newcastlefinance.us/post/industry-deep-dive-construction-how-to-effectively-manage-subcontractors-using-eos
Kathy (host):
Well, hello there! And welcome back to another episode of Help! My Business is Growing, a podcast where we explore how to grow and build a business that is healthy and sustainable. I'm your host, Kathy Svetina, a fractional CFO and founder of Newcastle Finance. We believe that everything that you do in your business will eventually end up in your finances, and to get to healthy finances is to have a healthy business. And how do you get there? Well, this is where this podcast comes into help.
Kathy (host):
We are kicking off a new series on this podcast called Industry Deep Dives because although business challenges we've talked about so far applied to every industry, we always want this podcast to be useful and actionable to you, listener. And to make it even more relevant, useful, and actionable to you as a listener, it needs to be even more specific, which is what this series is going to be all about. For the first Industry Deep Dives, this episode is going to be on construction and remodeling.
Kathy (host):
And the reason for that is because, in my opinion, construction is one of the most challenging industries. Because behind the scenes lies a complex web of project management intricacies almost unmatched by any other industry. With so many moving parts and the added layer of relying on subcontractors, it's so easy for things to become disorganized and chaotic. You have to coordinate different teams' schedules, and resources; it requires high skill and attention to detail. And if at any time any of these pieces go off track, there can be a big financial impact not only on the project but on the company overall.
Kathy (host):
So, how do you ensure success in this dynamic field where it's vital to manage both people and processes effectively? We're going to be looking at the exact specific things that you can do if you own a construction or remodeling company to make it on budget and to make it on time.
Kathy (host):
As a quick reminder, all of the episodes on this podcast, including this one, come with timestamps for topics that we discussed, and each one has its own blog post. You can find all the links and the detailed topics in this episode's show notes.
Kathy (host):
Today, my guest is John Glover. He is a Small Business Coach, a Fractional CEO, and Integrator, Personal Growth Consultant, and a Founder of Core Integration Coaching. He helps entrepreneurs, business partners, organizations, and individuals develop a roadmap to get what they want from their business and their life. As a passionate coach and facilitator, he's helped many set strategic goals, develop customized plans, and execute more effectively to obtain their desired results.
Kathy (host):
I'm super excited to have him and share his knowledge and insights. Join us.
Kathy (host):
Welcome to the show, John.
John (guest):
Thanks, Kathy. I appreciate you having me on.
Kathy (host):
Yeah, I appreciate what you were saying yesterday, as we connect through LinkedIn, I had my eye on him like I have to talk to John because we're going to be doing something a little bit different in this episode than what we've done so far in the podcast. So far, we were very industry-agnostic. But this episode, we're going to be focusing specifically on construction and remodeling. And it's important that we dive into specific industries, especially construction remodeling because there's not a lot of podcasts and materials out there. I mean, there's so many stuff around for SaaS businesses and startups, but not really for construction remodelers. And the interesting thing about construction is that there are a lot of moving parts, and you heavily rely on subcontractors. And there's this extreme complexity around project management that it's very hard to find in other industries. And you're going to be focusing on managing people around this process. So I wanted to ask you first, what are some of the unique challenges that you see in the businesses that you work within the construction business that they face when they're managing people and specifically the subcontractors?
John (guest):
That's a great question, Kathy. I think one of the main issues for most business owners, but specifically construction and remodelers, is how do you manage your people. In other words, we go into business because we like what we do and what our skill set is naturally suited for. And we start to hire people, whether they're your permanent employees or subcontractors, and we have expectations, and many times those expectations are not met. And therein lies the biggest, probably the number one frustration for most owners: managing people.
John (guest):
So, what I try to help with is breaking it down into a very, very simple process, where you can take a look at your own company and ask yourself, "Do I have any kind of a process for managing people in the construction business specifically?" Many people and many clients that I've had over the years know exactly what they want, they know exactly how they want things done. But they're not always the best communicators. They do a lot of assuming and hire a subcontractor who has a skill set, and you know, they trust them and take their word that they do great quality work. Then, you really forget to do that due diligence upfront. And by the time you discover that maybe they don't quite meet your standards or your expectations on that particular project, it's too late. Right now, you're faced with a loss of profits, an unhappy customer, and a lot of collateral damage, so to speak, within your own company.
Kathy (host):
And it's so important because even though they're a subcontractor when they, you send them out to a job site, they are carrying your name. So, what are some of the things that an owner can do to do that due diligence before they hire someone like that? And what are some of the things that you see that have been particularly helpful with your clients?
John (guest):
What are the first things? I think we always try to do is uncover that owner's vision of what their company stands for and the people that they employ - we call those core values, right? So that's a pretty common term in the business world. And for those of your listeners who have never heard core values relating to a company, it really is your moral compass. And what you stand for as a person, it's not something you can learn. It's the way you were raised, it's the conditioning that you went through as a child, and it's also your perspective on life.
John (guest):
So the first thing I ask visionary owners to do is to look around the room at the people that they employ currently and ask themselves, "Who's my best employee? And why are they my best employee? What characteristics do they have that make them so good? And if I could duplicate them, I could conquer all of my competitors." Because everybody wants an answer, but the visionaries got to be very clear on what their core values are, number one. And if they're not, then I encourage them to sit down with whoever is working with them and come up with three to five words that describe who you are as a company, and what you stand for. And that becomes the foundation for everything you do from this point forward.
John (guest):
So whether you're hiring full-time people, part-time people, or subcontractors, that core value alignment is critical to making sure that you're in line with one another's expectations. So you can theoretically hand off the reins and not have to micromanage somebody. So core values are the number one project that we typically try to work with those visionary owners to establish before we do anything about a hiring process.
Kathy (host):
That's really good. And so let's say that you have one of the core values is transparency and honestly and clear communication. Let's say that those are the three core values that you have. How do you translate that into the job-specific type of requirements and expectations that you have from a subcontractor, for example? Let's say that you need a subcontractor, obviously, to make sure that the worksite is clean, that the client knows what's happening, and that there's communication back to the office. And also, let's say that you hire an employee, and the employee just keeps on—I know that this is a very sore subject when it comes to construction businesses—change orders. A lot of times the contractor would come in, and they would just give the pricing to the owner without actually understanding, is it profitable? Is it not profitable? And then when it comes back into your office, you realize that, hey, we might have misquoted something. So how do you take those values and make sure that stuff like that doesn't happen in your business? Like how do you do that specifically?
John (guest):
So what I try to teach your owners is number one, to create what's called an accountability chart. And there's a company called EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) that's been around for a long time. And it's something that I practiced in my own business for many years. And now I help support companies running on EOS because what EOS teaches us is structure first, and people second. What I mean by that is that when you look at your company's org chart, for instance, whether there are three of you or there's 40 of you, everybody has to know exactly what their job is and where they stand in the company, what those responsibilities are.
John (guest):
So the first thing we try to do is create an accountability chart around every role in the company. And that starts with five major roles. So as an owner, whether you're hiring a subcontractor, or you're bringing on a new estimator, or maybe even a laborer, you have to identify for both yourself and for them, "What are the five major things that I'm expecting you to do once you start working for me?" And those five major roles can be simple, but they have to be clear, and there should be bullet points around each role. So when you hire someone, they know exactly what those expectations are. They know what their responsibilities are. And then you have 90 days to figure out if they match our core values. But do they know how to do the job that we've put them into? Do they get it? Do they want it? Do they have the capacity?
John (guest):
So I would take that same rule of thumb and apply it to subcontractors. Before you hire a subcontractor, it's imperative that you align the core values, obviously. But secondly, what is that job expectation? And I think many owners take for granted that painting is painting, carpentry is carpentry, floor finishing, and whatever the project is. You have to really before you hire someone, understand who that person is, how they work, and what their perspective is on what a great job looks like. And more importantly, do they understand what your expectations are? So having that initial conversation upfront, and even perhaps writing it down, here are the three to five expectations for this role, whether it's a subcontractor or an employee that both parties are clear on. So that sets the stage, so to speak, to hopefully eliminate confusion in communication as the project evolves.
John (guest):
So let's just take it a step further. So you're halfway into the project, and a change order comes in. This just happened to one of my clients the other day. They were refinishing a client's floor for them, brought in a subcontractor, picked out the stain, they were almost completed with the job, and then the homeowner decided they wanted their stairs done as well. Well, the contractor, on the spot, quoted them, in this case, he did communicate that to my client, everyone agreed, subcontractor performed the work. And lo and behold, when the job was finished, the stain on the stairs was a different color than on the entire first floor. And the question was, why? Because the wood was different, the type of wood they used to build the stairs was not the same as the flooring. And so the homeowner noticed that and was not happy. And that led to a whole cascading series of issues that eventually cost my client a lot of profitability because of that miscommunication.
John (guest):
So change orders aren't enough, and verbal conversations aren't enough. To have really clear communication requires management of some kind. So when you hire a subcontractor, don't just turn over the keys once they've explained to you how they're going to do the work. It's up to you, as the person who's hired this individual, to lay out all the expectations very clearly in writing and then have conversations along the way to make sure when issues do come up, you can get all the feedback necessary and solve that issue to move forward.
Kathy (host):
This is great, John, and I especially love the example. But let's return back into the example that you just gave us. What do you think should have been done, but hasn't been done, to make it so that they wouldn't have those types of issues? Is there anything that the subcontractor or the owner could have done to basically not have this profitability loss because of this mistake?
John (guest):
One of the things that there's a fine line of micromanaging and abdicating your responsibility, meaning that most of us don't like to be micromanaged. Most of us know what we're doing. And so if someone hires another individual and brings them into their project, you're assuming that they know exactly how to do the work to the standards that you've told them. However, we have to trust and verify. So we would refrain from bringing a new employee into our company, onboard them for 20 minutes, and then throw them out onto a crew and expect them to perform at the level that our existing crew members are performing. And it's the same thing with contractors.
John (guest):
So I tried to advise my clients, and in this case, it was too late. But we have to have somebody on the job when a change order exists, to be able to see for themselves what is happening. Many times over the phone, things get missed, and conversations don't include all the details. And although it might not be convenient for that owner or that operations director to show up at that job, it is imperative to do that. So the communication is totally on the same page, and we have all parties there discussing all possible options. So I really advocate to make sure you have someone on your team that is out in the field, that can show up on a job, even with qualified contractors, to really walk through that change order or that miscommunication that might have happened with the homeowner to work things out. Never allow a subcontractor to represent you and your company, especially over major issues or miscommunication between the homeowners.
Kathy (host):
And in terms of, let's say that you're short-staffed and you have a lot of projects happening, but you only have two people to go around these projects, basically, to have a side supervisor, you have two side supervisors, and they have to manage multiple projects. So you really need to be careful where you're sending them and how you're sending them. Is there a way that you can maybe triage these types of requests where they need to go? Like how would you do that?
John (guest):
What are the biggest challenges for any owner of a small business? It is to be able to delegate responsibility to other people within the organization. The owner typically is the one that has the vision, the skill set, the drive, and the complex problem-solving skills, and so they get mired in the day-to-day. And you're right, they can't be everywhere at once. And so by having a people process, and by that, I mean, you have to be able to write out exactly how you attract people, how you interview people, how you onboard them, etc., etc. Because without a people process, you're not going to be able to elevate others into the role that you need them to be to free you up as the owner to spend time doing what you're hard-wired to do.
John (guest):
And so if I was a small business today, with only a couple of people, I would make sure that the people that I brought in wanted more than just a job. I like people that have batteries included, meaning that the motivations are already there. They're driven people. And assuming that most people want to do good work, let's make sure that their skill set is aligned with the job description that we're trying to fill. But more importantly, we have to teach our people how to make good decisions out in the field without us. And so that could be 90 days of the owner and that second in command who's out in the field dealing with customers, understanding one another well enough to where the company's vision and the expectations and how you do what you do is so clear that it doesn't matter if you're talking to the owner or the second in command, the customer is getting the same message. So it really is important to elevate your people and allow them to make decisions, once you train them properly with all the background information they need to help those customers.
Kathy (host):
And let's talk a little bit about this as an owner, you're a visionary. And you basically have to be at a 10,000-foot level, you cannot be on the ground constantly. Because if you are then if business is not growing, I mean, there are so many aspects of the business that you have to be concerned with. So you just do not have the capacity. So how do you go and train your people as a visionary to be able to take that vision that you have and implement it into the day-to-day? There's obviously the piece of making sure that you totally articulate your vision and your mission of the business. But once you have all that, how do you translate that into the day-to-day operation so that these people know what is the expectation?
John (guest):
And that's a great question. And I think most small businesses struggle with that piece because you're so busy doing the work, you don't have time to work on the business. You're working in the business constantly. And this is why I love the EOS platform so much because it really is a very, very simple way to build the foundation for your business around six key components. And without getting too deep into the EOS system because you can read the books, and there's plenty of podcasts and videos on YouTube around it, it really does start with trying to once you get the vision established, then get into a regular cadence of how do we communicate.
John (guest):
And so you communicate through meetings, right? And most small businesses don't have time for meetings because they think they're a waste of time. And in our world, meetings are the most important 90 minutes of the week because we're going to look at how we did last week, we're going to tackle the issues that we have this week, and we're going to solve them. And we're going to execute upon the plan that we have for this week. So a regular meeting cadence, whether you can do it once a week, or once every two weeks is absolutely critical. And I don't care if it's a 15-minute meeting or it's a 90-minute meeting. But if you don't slow the train down and stop at occasionally, and you're so busy doing the work, the problems are going to magnify, your people are going to get frustrated, and then you have a retention issue. Now you're not keeping people or you're not attracting the right contractors, just because it's complete chaos, and you just can't keep up.
John (guest):
So what we try to teach our clients is that the 90-day world is every quarter, you really have to take a deep dive and work on your business by addressing the big issues. And if training is a big gap that you identified as the reason why you're not keeping people long enough, or you're not attracting the right kind of people, it is painful as it is, you have to create an onboarding process. Typically, owners of companies know what to do, but they're so busy again, doing everything, wearing so many hats, they think if I just go out and find a really good employee that thinks like I do, I won't have to manage them. Well, that is the goal. But you still have to have an onboarding process and give them all the resources and tools necessary to do that job. So what I like to talk about is the first 90 days. Typically, in the first 90 days, people show you how they work. After 90 days, they're not going to change very much. And so as frustrating as it can be for small businesses to onboard new employees or even take on a new subcontractor, what they forget is that if you don't take the time upfront to really make the expectations clear, talk about what the job role is, how to do things, have you created SOPs within your company? Do you have standard operating procedures that someone can refer to? In the construction world, we're very visual. You're not going to get somebody to sit down and read a 300-page manual. That's just not realistic. So company owners have to be creative in trying to train their new employees and also bring their subcontractors up to speed in those first 90 days.
John (guest):
And what that really takes are conversations. If you're not having regular conversations with your newer employees and your subcontractors, then the communication will break down. The assumptions are made. And now the problem that was small in the very beginning has suddenly grown.
Kathy (host):
When you do send communications, my assumption is that you mean meetings, or do you mean something else by that as well?
John (guest):
So a meeting is an agenda that is the same every single time, and I would encourage people to have a meeting with their whole team at least once a week if not every two weeks. When I talk about communication with new employees and subcontractors, that could simply be a casual conversation that lasts 10 minutes in a coffee shop or on the job site, or driving to the job site. It's a conversational session that allows both of you to check in and say, "Hey, what's working this week, and what's not working?" Because psychologically when you hire somebody, or you bring on a new subcontractor, nobody likes conflict, nobody likes bad news. And so most people aren't going to tell you the truth until you give them permission.
John (guest):
A lot of visionary owners have very high standards, and mistakes sometimes are not taken very well. So an employee might get the false impression that they can't make a mistake, or that someone is going to be mad. And in those first 90 days, what we're trying to teach these new employees and subcontractors is that, hey, stuff happens all the time, issues happen all the time. Let's not worry about whose fault it is, let's worry about fixing it. But more importantly, you have to be open and honest with me about what's working and what's not, so I can help fix it. And I'll do the same for you. It's building that trust and treating that person like you are investing in their success, as opposed to just hiring them and then sitting back with your arms folded, waiting for them to do great work for the money that you're spending.
Kathy (host):
These are the pointers, and have you seen your clients once they have implemented this? I'm always interested in, what I like to call, you know, Tales from the battlefield. Where were they? What happened? And how did the world change after they implemented it? Do you have anything, any specific story where someone was really struggling with their team or the subcontractors, and they came out on the other end completely changed?
John (guest):
I've got a really good story about a client of mine. When I was brought in, the owner admitted that he was tired of having all the answers. And even though the company was doing well financially, and he was very proud of the profitability compared to industry standards, he knew that the turnover was a problem and that the operations team needed a lot of work. So what happened over the course of a few months as we instituted the EOS platform, that we taught them the building blocks of how to create a better company. They then looked at the subcontractors that they've used in because they were heavily dependent upon subcontractors. They had identical issues with them, as they had with our own people, meaning that they had quality issues, they had miscommunication, and they had standards of cleanliness that weren't being kept up on the job.
John (guest):
And so what the team decided to do is when they looked at how their company and their expectations with their own people had changed, and the standards had become suddenly higher, they thought, "Why don't we take those same standards and apply them to our subcontractors?" And so the company they dealt with, they called in for a meeting. And they sat down and they explained to them, "Here's who we are, here's our core values. Here's what we stand for. And the reason why I'm telling you all this is because we want you as a supplier of ours to only send us people that match up with our core values. Because we can't afford to have anybody on our team who is not meeting the expectations that we've set forth for our own people."
John (guest):
And then they went a step further. They created job descriptions for these subcontractors that were very similar to their own people. And they made sure that before they stepped foot on any job, the foreman or the project manager was going to meet with each one of those subcontractor employees and get very clear on the expectations both from them and the work they performed. Then, when the work was halfway through, the management team of both companies got on another quick phone call to check in, "Hey, what's working, what's not working?" which enabled them to pivot midway through the job if there were some unexpected challenges. The important thing is they kept the lines of communication open. They're talking at both a management level and a foreman level. And when the job was complete, they then completed an audit on both the job and the subcontractor's performance, which, by the way, helped the subcontractor hire better people and get better at what they did because they wanted to obviously retain more work from this client of mine.
Kathy (host):
And this is in the space of the subcontractors. But also, let's say that you have issues with a particular supplier that supplies products to you. Could you apply the same type of thinking to the product supplier as well? Or is that get a little bit more challenging because you might deal with a bigger company, and you don't have that many lines of communication open, or at least not have the opportunities for them any lines of communication?
John (guest):
So that's a very, very good question in the context that as a business, you might deal with many different types of suppliers, many different types of companies of all sizes, and the bigger the company, the harder it is certainly to communicate your expectations that you'd like to see them carry out compared to their own processes. But it really does go back to core value alignment. Even if you're dealing with a bigger company than you're dealing with a buyer of a commodity product, there has to be a relationship built between you and that individual. So trust is obviously built. So when issues do come up, you have a platform to solve the problem. And I think what happens in many cases is both companies try to dig their heels in because they want things done their way, they have their own playbook to follow. And now it becomes a battle of the wills, which never ends well. So it's that upfront due diligence, whether you're buying lumber, or paint, it does not matter. You have to look at your suppliers, at your subcontractors, at your vendors, and anyone you depend upon as a business owner to execute your service or product out in the field. You want to have a relationship with them that matches your core values to theirs. And you do that through a series of questions. You can do that very, very easily by asking them a lot about their company and what they stand for, and what type of work they do. And there's testimonials and there's reviews. I mean, there's everything on the internet today to obviously do your due diligence. But it's that one-on-one relationship building. It's critical because people buy from people they like, period. So it really is a platform that you can apply to every facet of your business.
Kathy (host):
And are there any specific questions that you find particularly helpful to ask your suppliers and subcontractors to understand what they stand for? Do they match your company's ethos?
John (guest):
Sure, there's two ways to go about that; Kathy, you can do either. And I've got clients who do it both ways. So let's just call it interviewing, whether you're interviewing an employee or you're interviewing a subcontractor, it's basically the same.
John (guest):
So when you bring someone in or you're talking to someone to determine whether or not they're a good fit, you have to find out what their story is. That if it's an individual, everybody's got a story. But if it's a company, every company has got a story; understand where they came from and how they got to where they are today. That story tells us a lot about the journey and what they learned, and the kind of company they are today based upon what they went through.
John (guest):
And then secondly, when you are trying to vet someone to see if they are going to be a good fit, you have to tell them exactly who you are as a company. And what your expectations for quality work are by reviewing the core values and talking about the people that work for you. And talking about the quality of work that you do. Most business owners are very, very passionate people; that passion has to come through when you're vetting someone to do business with because you're trying to understand, is my passion connecting with them, or are rolling their eyes trying to get off the phone because they've got four more projects right behind yours? Right? It's not always a good fit.
John (guest):
And so getting to know somebody on a personal level is critical. And I like to not rely upon testimonials but always get one or two testimonials that you can actually call and talk to, that will verify what people are telling you. And those testimonials are sometimes people say, "Well, it's hard to get the testimonial from someone because they're limited in what they can tell you." And there's a very good question to ask, "Would you hire that person or company again?" And if they won't say anything, then there's your answer. If they go on for five minutes, there's your answer.
John (guest):
So a lot of this is not rocket science. It's very, very simple business practice. But the basic blocking and tackling of owning a business is all around people. It's how you attract them. It's how you match them up with who you are as a company. It's how you train them and give them the resources to succeed. And more importantly, it's giving them feedback. Because if a vendor or a subcontractor you've hired is not meeting expectations, most of us are afraid of that conflict. We don't like to go to the danger zone. It's true. What EOS teaches us is you have to go to the danger zone. Because you're not attacking the person. You're simply uncovering a problem and brainstorming a way out. How do we solve the problem that we have today?
John (guest):
So I know that's a long-winded way of answering your question about how we get better at vetting subcontractors. But it is the same principle of how you would hire anybody into your organization. And so if you have a people process that takes you from the very beginning of attracting, interviewing, onboarding, all the way through managing them and giving them regular reviews, then the only other thing that's left are those difficult conversations. Because we've all had employees and or subcontractors that we get so frustrated with that we delay pulling the trigger, because of all the reasons we've come up with in our head. And essentially, we call that 36 hours of pain. In other words, once your gut tells you that things aren't working with a subcontractor or an employee, that's the time to bring him in and have the conversation. Do it in a nice way, be kind.
John (guest):
But coming back to those five major roles that you laid out originally, have the job expectations, and ask them, "How do you think you're doing? Because I'll give you some feedback when you're done." And when you have a gap, that's when you start exploring how maybe we can fix this relationship. Or we can help provide clarity to the individual. And then you simply give them 30 days to get better if you have faith that they're really going to try and get better. So the four-strike rule has been around forever. But most business owners I talked to when they're in the middle of this frustration, hardly ever talk to their people; they vent. And after a while, people get tired of hearing them vent. And then eventually something blows up.
John (guest):
So having a people process gives you a step-by-step methodology to be able to address every single issue that might arise in that relationship. And it all boils down to communication. And if, at the end of the day, after a conversation or two, things don't change, then it's time to rip the bandaid off and go in a different direction. As painful as that might be short-term.
Kathy (host):
If someone's listening to this, and they hear about it, they say, "Well, this all sounds really good to me. But this sounds very, let's say almost like you're trying to impose a corporate structure on a business that people are not used to the structure yet, or maybe they have never had this type of structure before." And you might have a lot of pushback of, "Oh, this is not how we've done in the company that I worked for before. Or this is not how we've done before." What would you say to that type of business owner that is experiencing this pushback either from themselves internally or from their team?
John (guest):
So the one word that comes to mind is accountability. Right. So most companies lack a certain level of accountability within their organization or within their subcontractor, and supplier base. And so why do we have a lack of action? eligibility. And well, there's many, many reasons of why. But I always go back to, when you look at Structure and Change, people really don't like change. And they don't like structure because structure feels constricting, don't give me all these rules I have to follow. I'm a free spirit, I'm a contractor, and I do great work, leave me alone. And when you come back, that job will be done. Ironically, what this whole system teaches visionary owners is how to set up a very, very simple and easy-to-follow structure. And once you set it up, it actually gives your people and your subcontractors more autonomy, and more ability to do what they do best to make decisions on the job and solve issues as they arise because they understand where they fit into the big picture.
John (guest):
They understand what their role is. And they also know that there might be one or two people above them or below them, that can help solve the problem. So that's why it comes back to in my eyes many times deal with people that are coachable but don't have all the answers. We're all proud individuals that, you know, have taken a long time to build a skill set. And nobody likes to be micromanaged. But if you give somebody the room to do their work to do what they love to do, with a little bit of boundary around it, they're going to thrive, and it's very similar to raising children. Children without boundaries are not gonna have much success. Right? We all know that. And so your employees and your subcontractors need some basic boundaries. And so once you've set them up, that's going to propel everybody to growth, because it's like lining up everybody in the same direction, and then letting them run.
Kathy (host):
So John, if someone's listening to this, and I said, "Oh, my goodness, that sounds like a lot of work. And I have no idea where to even start, what is the next thing that they can do that it's manageable, like a small bite-size thing to get them closer to where they need to be in the next week? Or two? What can they do?
John (guest):
Sure. So I would go back to the original point that I made in the very beginning of the podcast, Kathy, and that is it is critical to create your own people process. And so that people process isn't complicated. It really isn't. I'm talking about a one-page document that covers everything from, again, how to attract the right people to your organization, and how to interview the right way. So when you go through the interview process, you are fairly confident that you've picked the very best candidate that's going to be successful in that position that you've got open.
John (guest):
And then once they're brought in, you have to train them, you have to give them the resources. So what does that look like it doesn't have to be a six-week training program, it could be as simple as you're going to shadow Joe for the first week. And then we're going to let you shadow Sherry on her jobs. And then we're going to bring you inside and have you understand how we estimate. You have to have a plan to expose them to various parts of your business, and certainly the part of the business that they're going to be responsible for, and hopefully have some kind of a mentor or somebody that they can bounce ideas off of and get their questions answered.
John (guest):
So the onboarding process, first 90 days critical, couple of bullet points, what are you going to do to help these people get on board, and then you simply have to talk to them once in a while. Whether that's once a week, once a month, for 15 minutes, I'm not talking about a formal review, or they're filling out some evaluation that nobody ever reads again, or it's done once a year. It's a 15-minute conversation with checking in with them as a person. Hey, how are you doing? Tell me about what's working so far. Are you frustrated with anything? What can I help with? How can I get you the necessary tools to make sure that you're meeting our expectations?
John (guest):
When people know you care, that makes all the difference in the world. That people process is really a critical component. And there are many examples EOS has, as a people process written out in many of their books. You can go online, you can go on YouTube, look up Entrepreneurial Operating System. But it's something that I've been practicing for almost 20 years now. And as simple as the system is, it's critical and imperative that you start out with a people process, because without that, things will eventually fall apart, or you won't be able to reach a certain level past where your current business is today.
Kathy (host):
Thank you for that, John. It was very insightful. Where can people find you?
John (guest):
You could find me at john@coreintegrationcoaching.com is my email. My website is www.coreintegrationcoaching.com. And I'm obviously on LinkedIn as well. And I just want to say thank you, Kathy. It's been a pleasure chatting with you this afternoon about the construction industry and about how we can hopefully help these visionary owners create a business they've always dreamed of and limit the number of frustrations that revolve around people and grow your business.
Kathy (host):
Yeah, thank you so much for being on the show, John, a very insightful conversation, as I said, and we're going to put all of your contact information, email, website, and everything in the show notes as well so that if you're interested, you can just click on there. Thanks so much.
John (guest):
Thank you, Kathy.
Kathy (host):
Thanks so much for joining us on today's episode, and I hope that you've enjoyed our exploration of the construction industry and how it handles projects and people management. As I've mentioned before we started this podcast, this was one of the first episodes of industry deep dives, and we are planning a lot more of those.
Kathy (host):
Also, if you love this episode, you can find all the timestamps, show notes, blog posts, and links on the website, newcastlefinance.us/podcast. And before I go, as always, I do have a favor to ask. If you're listening to this on Apple podcasts you could please go to the show and tap the number of stars that you think the show deserves. This helps to give us that much-needed algorithm love on the Apple side, and it helps other people find the show and benefit from it too.
Kathy (host):
Thanks so much. Until next time.