Unique content is critical to growing your business.
But with AI like ChatGPT on the rise, staying ahead of the game is a challenge.
So, how can businesses keep up? How does AI impact thought leadership content?
What opportunities and obstacles come with using it?
And most importantly, how can you leverage this technology to drive business growth?
In today's episode, our guest Stephanie Nivinskus and I discuss all things AI, particularly ChatGPT, and how - if used properly - it can help you with your marketing efforts
Stephanie is the CEO of SizzleForce Marketing, a Fractional CMO agency that services scaling companies. Since 1995 she’s been developing brand-building marketing campaigns that have been used by companies including Starbucks, Quiksilver, The National Football League, Cox Communications, and thousands of privately owned companies.
Stephanie has written for Forbes and Entrepreneur magazines and is the author of the international #1 best-seller, Absolutely Unforgettable: The Entrepreneur’s Guide To Creating A HeartCentered Brand And Standing Out In A Noisy World.
Known for her ability to humanize commerce and market products and services in an authentic & powerful way, she delights audiences with attention-grabbing stories and strategies that connect the dots between people and profit. Her raw, heart-centered approach to creating meaningful conversations gives scaling companies a big voice in the marketplace.
Stephanie speaks nationwide. When she’s not helping brands showcase their sizzle, Stephanie enjoys time with her husband and three teenagers in San Diego.
We discuss:
03:40 How can Chat GPT be leveraged to develop thought leadership content and improve content quality?
05:54 What are some practical ways to use Chat GPT to enhance content ideation for a blog while incorporating one's thought leadership and experience?
10:07 What measures should be taken to verify the accuracy of the information generated by AI tools and ensure the reliability of sources used?
12:28 What measures can you take to ensure the ethical and effective use of AI and Chat GPT by marketing agencies?
18:30 What are some clear indications or "dead giveaways" that suggest an individual or organization has simply taken Chat GPT's output and passed it off as their own content, without additional modifications or thoughts?
23:10 What other ways, besides content creation and marketing, can individuals or organizations effectively use ChatGPT to their advantage?
31:07 What would be the next actionable step for someone just starting to use AI to ensure they are using it effectively and efficiently?
Resources:
Stephanie Nivinskus, CEO, Author, and Speaker, SizzleForce Marketing:
https://sizzleforce.com/
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanienivinskus/
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/sizzleforce/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SizzleForce/
Author of Absolutely Unforgettable: The Entrepreneur’s Guide To Creating A HeartCentered Brand And Standing Out In A Noisy World
Kathy Svetina, Fractional CFO:
https://www.newcastlefinance.us/
Blog post | Content Creation for Businesses in the Age of AI
https://www.newcastlefinance.us/post/content-creation-for-businesses-in-the-age-of-ai
Kathy (host):
Well, hello there and welcome back to another episode of "Help My Business is Growing," a podcast where we explore how to grow and build a business that is healthy and sustainable. I'm your host, Kathy Svetina.
Kathy (host):
You know, creating unique and engaging content is a critical marketing tool for your growing business because it can help attract new customers and set you apart from the competition. However, with more and more people using AI, particularly ChatGPT (and I'm recording this in April of 2023), the thing is everywhere. And when I say everywhere, I mean everywhere. So it seems like creating content is going to be getting harder to stay ahead of the curve because more people are producing it. You have to produce more, and it's kind of like a snowball effect. At least it seems so. But is that really true?
Kathy (host):
So, what we're going to be discussing in this podcast is how should you, as a business, use this well so that you do not get left behind. And how does AI impact thought leadership creation? And what are some of the challenges and opportunities that come with using AI, particularly ChatGPT? And how can you leverage this technology to grow your business and drive success in the right way? Because as you will hear in the episode, there is definitely the right and the wrong way to use this type of technology, at least as of right now. And a quick reminder, all of the episodes on this podcast, including this one, come with their own timestamps for topics that we discussed, and each one has its own blog post as well. So, you can just go scattershot also instead of listening to it, if that's what you prefer. You can find all the links and the detailed topics in this episode's show notes.
Kathy (host):
So, my guest today is going to be Stephanie Nivinskus because she is the CEO of Sizzle Force Marketing, a Fractional CMO agency that services scaling companies. And since 1995, she has been developing brand-building marketing campaigns that have been used by companies such as Starbucks, Quicksilver, the National Football League, and Cox Communications, along with thousands of privately-owned companies. She has written for Forbes and Entrepreneur magazines and is the author of an international number-one bestseller book called "Absolutely Unforgettable: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Creating a Heart-Centered Brand and Standing Out in the Noisy World." Join us.
Kathy (host):
Welcome to the show, Stephanie.
Stephanie (guest):
Thank you so glad to be here.
Kathy (host):
I'm so glad to hear that because we're going to be talking about something that is really, really relevant to this point. We're recording this in April 2023, and you do not have to go far to hear about this new shiny object called ChatGPT. The world has gone crazy about it, and there are how-to guides popping up every second on LinkedIn. It's absolutely insane. It's an interesting tool, and there's definitely a lot of potential for any industry. Although I will say that there are some things about it that worry me, data privacy being a significant one at this point. And just before we go any further, I want to make this as a public service announcement: please do not put any confidential information in ChatGPT or any of these tools. Nothing that you would not want on the front page of a newspaper. Because there have been instances when people have seen other people's prompts and people leaking confidential information. There was just an article that came out about two weeks ago about Samsung employees doing that. So that is my PSA for the day.
Kathy (host):
But saying that, I'm starting to see that there's this almost like commoditization of content. And because the threshold for producing content has actually been lowered, the bar has been lowered because everyone can do that now. So when everyone can do it, obviously, there's more volume and there's more C-grade content out there. There's a way to use this in a good way and a bad way. So let's talk about this. What have you seen and how do you use that to really develop your own thought leadership? And how do you use that to your advantage?
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, great question. So one thing that I like to tell people is that when you're developing thought leadership, it's really important to have great content, but it's also important to have speed, right? So, like, right now, you are developing more thought leadership because you're doing podcasts on AI, which is the hot trending topic, and everybody needs to keep up with that.
Stephanie (guest):
Now, when developing content for thought leadership with AI, it's super important that people understand AI is amazing for what we call ideation. It can help you develop your first draft and give you a real head start on what you want to share. However, AI used in isolation is a problem. AI used in isolation is regurgitation. And it's not going to impress Google or anyone who reads it because it's going to be literally a regurgitation of what everybody else has already said.
Stephanie (guest):
AI, when coupled with human intelligence, meaning you take what AI starts and then add your own human touch, is where the magic happens. That's when you get to take the foundational elements that AI has developed, sprinkle it with your own unique insights as a thought leader in your industry, and voila, you've got great stuff.
Kathy (host):
So, how does this work in practice? Let's say that you're trying to create a blog. Do you have an example? Like, how would someone be able to use the AI well to their advantage as ideation, but also take their experience, their thought leadership, and embed that in there?
Stephanie (guest):
How would that look like when it comes to specifically good chat DPT, you know, there's like, literally 1000s of AI solutions at this point, but let's focus on track ChatGPT.
Stephanie (guest):
Okay, when you're using that tool, one thing that you absolutely must keep top of mind is, the quality of the outputs that you get from ChatGPT are directly proportional to the quality of the inputs you give it, right? So you feed ChatGPT a great prompt, that's really well thought out and really detailed, you're gonna get content spit out, that's much higher level than if you do something super generic.
Stephanie (guest):
Okay. So for example, a lot of times when people are first starting to dabble in AI, specifically ChatGPT, they might get one of these like free prompts that are flooding the internet right now, a lot of the free prompts a lot of the things that get 100 prompts for $9. That's stuff that's everywhere, the prompts will say they're garbage, they're garbage, which is why they're being given away for free, or really cheap.
Stephanie (guest):
Okay, I'm a fierce believer in detailed quality prompts. So if you are trying to get AI to write a blog post for you, you're going to want to feed it a lot of information, you're going to want to tell it what the purpose of the blog post is, you're going to want to explain who your audience is what your audience cares about, you're going to want to highlight any important points that you want it to cover, you're going to need to tell it what keywords you need integrated into the content, you're going to need to tell it how long the content should be. If you want it broken up with metadata, if you're into all the SEO stuff, you need to instruct it to do that.
Stephanie (guest):
And usually before you have it write anything you need to do marketing research. So you can also feed it with the research. For example, you could go to chat GBT, and let's say you wanted to write a blog on how AI is impacting the food service industry. Okay, randomly. So I would say Your first step is go to AI and do that marketing research, find it out, don't just do it on Google, go and ChatGPT and say, to my knowledge, the food industry has been impacted in these ways. Tell me five other ways that the food industry has been impacted or will be impacted by AI. Okay, your sources, then, once you've done a decent amount of research, then you feed in that deeper level prompt about who your blog is being written for, what the goal of it is, and what is the big idea you're trying to convey? And what action do you want people to take as a result of reading your blog, feed that then with all that information chat, GBT can write some quality content for you.
Stephanie (guest):
Your thought leadership can be inserted along the way, when you're writing your prompt, you can you can say something along the lines of make sure that you address the fact that AI blah, blah, blah in the food industry. This needs to be 60% of the article, or whatever you want it to be. And then you feed all that in and boom, you're gonna get something fairly decent. You're gonna have to sprinkle it with human intelligence. When you're done.
Stephanie (guest):
Do not go into AI thinking it's copy and paste. It's not. If you do that, you're gonna get yourself in trouble. Your comments gonna be lame. Google's not gonna like it. And you might even enter some legal risk, because who knows what's going to happen with plagiarism and ethics and blah, blah, blah.
Kathy (host):
And the other thing that you mentioned here, which I think is really important, what sources? Because I've noticed here, and I've used AI for probably about a year and a half now before even ChatGPT was out there. There were other tools that were obviously available that I was using, and I've dabbled with them before. One of the things that's really important is to understand if that's your experience as well, is that you have to ask for specific things. You have to ask for sources and actually go check those sources because there might not be correct. So it doesn't spit factually correct information. So you really need to understand whether that is correct or not. And you have to do your due diligence. Would you agree with that?
Stephanie (guest):
150%, check. ChatGPT will tell you that itself?
Kathy (host):
No.
Stephanie (guest):
And I know that because I asked it. I mean, I believe it's in their terms of service as well, right? Warnings will pop up here, there, and everywhere. But I actually went in and did a prompt. And I said, "Tell me about all of the risks I'm taking as a business owner using ChatGPT to contribute to the content that I put out." And it said, "Well, as an AI learning machine, something like I do the best I can to provide true content, but really, it's on you, girl." So in not so many words, that's what it said. And so we, as business owners and leaders, absolutely, the buck stops with us. And we have to do our due diligence.
Kathy (host):
This is very interesting because I have seen agencies that use AI as essentially an employee replacement. I have seen people in the last couple of months doing a lot of restructuring the way how they're hiring people. And they have let some people go, especially writers and copywriters, and they're replacing them with AI. I like the idea from a cost perspective. It's very risky from my perspective here, and I would really not advocate for this because I think the technology has been so new at this point. And there's a lot of, like we've said, you have to really understand how to use it well. So my question for you is, if someone is hiring an agency like a marketing agency and essentially, you're paying them a couple of grand a month to produce content for you, and all of a sudden, now they're using AI, how do you make sure that the content that they're really producing, one, it's good quality? And two, that they are really doing their due diligence and fact-checking, and you know that the quality doesn't slip? I know this is a very loaded question. But what I'm concerned about is the fact that the agencies are going to start firing people using ChatGPT and starting producing subpar content just because there's so much content out there, we're just going to be a content mill and using AI instead of people. What's your take on that?
Stephanie (guest):
First of all, I think any agency that does that is stupid. To be completely blunt, short-sighted, very short-sighted. The reason why is I, in my perspective, AI is an amazing marketing research assistant. AI does not replace your copywriters, not if you want 100% unique, original content. By now certain types of AI will say everything is unique and original. It's not possible to be unique and original. That is not what AI does. So I don't know why people even fight that battle. Because I mean, it's yeah, it's like black and white.
Stephanie (guest):
So I own a marketing agency. We are integrating AI into our practices isn't replacing my copywriters, and content writers and social media marketer, etc. Absolutely not. Okay. And there's a few reasons why, number one, we're really just getting this AI party started. I mean, yes, it's been around for several years. Yes, most marketers who have been in the business for any amount of time have been using it at least for a few years now, right, but ChatGPT became all the rage in November. And I think that any marketer worth their salt knows that this is very much in the beginning stages. There are a lot of ethical questions yet to be answered. There are a lot of legal questions yet to be addressed by the US Copyright Office. I think that it's too totally inappropriate to think the AI can replace a professional copywriter or content writer or social media marketer at this point.
Stephanie (guest):
Now what it can do is save those people a tremendous amount of time because of the ideation. But especially anybody who considers themselves a creative professional, you take pride in contributing your human intelligence to the work. That is what fuels your soul and lights your heart on fire. You don't want to give that up to a robot; you want the robot to do the heavy lifting, the boring marketing research, and then spit that out. And then you add the sizzle to it.
Stephanie (guest):
Now, answering your question about how do you make sure it's good quality? I mean, that's, it's very subjective. Okay, it's very subjective. What I can tell you is, for example, if you're looking for quality that Google deems as being quality content, you're going to want to make sure that the content follows what they call the EAT formula, E-A-T. I think it's experience, expertise, authority, and trust. If the content communicates those four things, Google will likely see it as good content, good quality content that may rank. If it doesn't, probably won't rank, or it might rank for some really lame keyword that doesn't get a lot of traffic. Aside from that, good quality is a subjective thing. I can write something and be like, "This is good." And someone else can read it and be like, "That's not good." It didn't appeal to them. So it's a hard question to answer.
Kathy (host):
You know, when we were talking about using AI as a tool, I like to think of these tools as, just because, for example, a carpenter, right? They can use an electric tool or they can use a manual hammer, right? And right now, people were using hammers to get stuff done, they can get much faster done with electric tools. And just because you're switching the tool, it doesn't mean that you don't still need expertise because you can give me a hammer or an electric tool, and I have no idea how to build a house. Just like with marketing or with a copywriter, whether you give them AI, you still need the talent to figure out how to actually use that well so that they can do their job correctly.
Stephanie (guest):
And here's the thing too, when it comes to copywriting specifically, it's all based around psychology, right? How humans think and behave. And so, AI doesn't know that stuff. You've got to tell them that stuff. You've got to, not them, it. You have to feed it that information. And you still have to have that eye to spot it like, yes, this meets a need. Yes, this talks to a specific target client. Yes, this has a sense of urgency. Yes, this is going to pique curiosity and make people want to open it, right? And those are all things that your professionals have studied and put years of blood, sweat, and tears into developing. The AI can spot that or create it from scratch. AI is going to put something out, and as far as AI is concerned, it's good enough. But is it really?
Kathy (host):
Yeah. And have you noticed that there are some dead giveaways that a person has just taken whatever the system spit out and they have just slapped their name on it? And that's it? Or is there something that is just a dead giveaway that happened?
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, there are. Okay, I have seen so many ads popping up on Facebook lately that start with the word "attention!" Exclamation point. ChatGPT dead giveaway. I've also seen so many people using AI to create images with mid-journey. If you look really closely at the images, if there are hands or arms in it, they might have eight fingers on one hand. I saw this one image the other day where somebody was holding a bowl of cereal, and the spoon was like literally as long as my leg. Okay. It was totally out of proportion. And it looked like it had gotten into a fight with the garbage disposal because it was all tweaked in the way it was shaped. Furthermore, the way that the fictitious person that was supposed to look like a real person was holding the spoon, there was this extremely awkward amount of space between their index finger and their middle finger, right? Like it looked like four inches of space, super weird. Holding a bowl that way with this spoon the size of my leg and you...
Stephanie (guest):
The thing is a lot of times, if you don't have a background in marketing, you may not be in the habit of looking for the details. And when it comes to AI, you have to be extremely detail-oriented. You have to look at the little things. Otherwise, you're gonna put out an image with someone who has eight arms and looks like an octopus. And then you're gonna notice after the fact and be like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe I did that." You're gonna be all embarrassed, you're gonna have to backpedal. So just get in the habit, put on your eagle eyes, I always tell my team, put on your eagle eyes, you are looking for the little details. And your job is to catch them.
Kathy (host):
Yeah, I tried doing some experimentation with images because for my content, I use a lot of illustrations. And I figured, you know, it'll be interesting to do that. And it did not go well. So I'm definitely keeping my illustrator. That is 110% surety right there.
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, good enough to keep your Illustrator. I am keeping my designer as well. But what I can tell you though is that my designer is all into AI. Like she's having the time of her life playing with this stuff because she sees incredible things in her mind. And sometimes she just needs a new perspective of how to put it all together. Right now, we're in a midway journey. And she can write this killer prompt that puts out something wicked cool. It wouldn't even cross my mind as someone who's not a designer. And then she can take that and further enhance it. But AI alone is not going to create something like a vector image that's ready for prints. You can use it, for example, for idea generation for a new logo. But is it going to create something that you can then trademark? And is it something that you'll be able to just download and use it in your print materials, blow it up, and have it on banners or a car wrap? No, it's not. You still need your creative professionals to polish it with human intelligence.
Kathy (host):
So with illustrations, obviously there has to be an idea of what are we actually going to do an illustration for. And I do a lot of education on, you know, financial topics, and I like to do personification of financial topics, like illustrations of them. So a lot of times, what I would do is I would use AI to figure out that ideation. "Hey, this is what I'm trying to do. Give me some ideas, I have a picture representation of this." And it gives like five, six ideas, and it just sparks that thing. I obviously then change it and put some of my own ideas in it, and then send it over to the illustrator to actually make that into a picture. And it's been working extremely well.
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, that's a great way to use it. That's perfect.
Kathy (host):
So we've talked about agencies using AI, but I also want to ask: Are there any other ways that people can use AI to their benefit? Besides content and marketing, are there any other areas where you've seen AI work really well for your clients?
Stephanie (guest):
Well, I live in the marketing world, so all of my attention has been focused on marketing solutions for AI. I know there's AI for everything. My husband owns an architecture firm, and there's AI in his industry. I'm like, "Oh, I don't think I would trust AI to make the plans for my next skyscraper, right? We're not there yet." So honestly, I haven't looked outside of marketing within the marketing realm. There is AI for everything you can imagine. Really, there's an AI solution for every day, and it's evolving so insanely rapidly. It's amazing and exciting.
Kathy (host):
It is, it'd be interesting to see what happens a year from now. I have seen on LinkedIn some people popping up in the legal profession using AI. Obviously, they do not use ChatGPT; they use other specifically developed AI systems that actually help them with legal briefs. So now, when you input the cases, it will actually pull up legal briefs for you, and you can write them really fast. I thought that was a really interesting case of using AI. In the finance world, what we have now is Excel developing its own AI system. I don't know what it's called exactly, but I think they've just rolled it out to users. You can ask questions about the numbers in your spreadsheet, and it will provide answers. So I thought these were interesting use cases, and it's definitely exciting to see that happen. Any thoughts?
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, that would be super helpful. It sounds like, for me, I'm really good with words, not very good with numbers and finance, like what your strength is. That's my weakness, right? And for somebody like me, if it did that if I could go in and I could say, "What are the sales patterns that we can find here? You know, what's the most profitable? Or where's the most untapped opportunity in this revenue stream or something like that?" And that would be super cool. Or, you know, spit out a financial report that shows the growth in this one sector, whatever. I don't know what Excel's AI is going to do, but that's exciting.
Kathy (host):
Yeah, especially because it replaces the analytical, that's really number-crunching spreadsheet work. And I know a lot of finance people are kind of afraid of that. But I always say, that just gives you more opportunity to actually have conversations and talk about strategy, and to talk about all of the things that we really should be doing versus number crunching. So that's my little content around AI for finance people. It's very exciting.
Stephanie (guest):
What I'm seeing touches on people being afraid of AI. And I think that's a topic worth exploring because it's new and different. And people, in general, do not like change, right? But when we talk about being afraid, I mean, I am the first person to say, as someone who's made my career out of writing for 28 years, I've been doing this professionally. And along comes a little robot that someone has programmed, who threatens to take my job. Yeah, at first, all my defenses were up. And I was like, "Well, it's going to be terrible work. It's going to ruin my creativity." You know, I had all kinds of negative thoughts about it. That was fear-based, okay? Then I decided, "Okay, wait a minute here. I can either be friends with AI or be enemies with AI." But here's what we know: AI is not going away. So if you decide to be enemies with AI and not integrate it into what you're doing with your business, you're being very, very short-sighted. It's kind of like going back to the 90s and saying, "Oh, that.com thing? Yeah, that's just a fad. That internet thing, you know, or that social media thing called? What is it, Facebook, right? Just a fad, it won't last?" We should have learned our lessons by now.
Stephanie (guest):
At the same time, I think back to things that were happening 100 years ago. Do you think people who had only spent their lives riding in horse and buggies were scared when cars came out? It was like, "Yeah, get in this box, turn the key, and an engine starts and it will move." They were probably terrified. Right? Terrifying. It's like, "How do I control this thing? What do I do?" And now, of course, it's normal for all of us to drive cars. I think with any type of innovation that's happened throughout time, it's scary. But scary is good. Scary stretches us to be better, scary forces us to adapt, scary challenges us to bring our best to the table. So it's good stuff.
Kathy (host):
As funny as you were saying this, we were just over at the Smithsonian Museum over the weekend. And it's interesting because they had a whole exhibit on the world of progress, going all back to the 1800s. Right? And it's fascinating to see how the world has evolved in just the last short, not even 120 years. That is a blink of an eye. And we have made so, so much progress. The Internet, even for me, my generation, we did not have the internet until we were teenagers. And I'm not that old. I mean, it's crazy to think how much progress we have made in technology, and AI feels like it's the next era. There's something significantly momentous about this.
Stephanie (guest):
There really is. And that's why it's so important for people to rapidly adopt it. Now, that doesn't mean throwing away caution flags at all. You do need to be cautious and have your due diligence in place. Don't stick your head in the sand and think, "Oh, this is just for the tech people or just for the marketers or just for whoever." Because it's not. It's like the Jetsons in real-time. Remember the characters in The Jetsons? I have a girlfriend who actually does a lot of AI stuff for LinkedIn, and she had this great analogy that she shared about a month ago in a live session. She brought up pictures from the Jetsons cartoon and said, "Remember when we were kids and George Jetson had that watch that would communicate with him? Well, hello, now we all have Apple watches, right?" And then she said, "Remember when they could have dinner and it would magically appear in front of them without Mrs. Jetson having to cook anything? Well, hello, Uber Eats, right?" or whatever it is. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, it's really the Jetsons. It's really happening." The only thing missing is flying cars, but you know, Elon, when is that happening?
Kathy (host):
It'll be here before you know it. Stephanie, this has been a very insightful conversation. And I ask this question to every guest that comes on this podcast, and we always end up with valuable insights. So, if you were to give one piece of advice to someone who is starting to use AI, what would it be?
Stephanie (guest):
I would say, get trained in how to do it. Right? Okay. It's not necessarily intuitive. Okay. It's not necessarily intuitive. And I think that a lot of people are stalling worthless shortcuts. And like anything good, you've got to put in the work to get what you really want. Okay? So, does that mean that you have to spend 1000 hours like we have, studying all of this? No, absolutely not. But learning from us is really smart because we've already put in the blood, sweat, and tears. If you just go into ChatGPT or Jasper or mid-journey or whatever, and you dabble, you know, I mean, you might have some fun, right? It might be interesting. Are you going to actually get results that will create marketing assets or assets in any capacity for your brands that set you apart in a very noisy market? No, you're not. You're not. You're gonna get a lot of generic stuff. So find the professionals who have studied this inside and out and learn from them. Don't try and just DIY it because it's going to take you forever to get anywhere and be. You don't have that time to waste. You're too busy.
Kathy (host):
Yeah, that's a good point. You don't have that time to waste. Stephanie, where can people find you?
Stephanie (guest):
Yeah, you can find me at sizzleforce.com. And if you do want to learn, we actually have a special app right now. It had a different website address. It's sizzlesuite.com/special. We are actually launching a course in May on how to use AI for business. So, would love to see some of you there if you want to learn.
Kathy (host):
That's fabulous. Stephanie, this has been very helpful. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.
Stephanie (guest):
Thank you so much.
Kathy (host):
Well, thanks so much for joining us on today's episode, and I hope that this episode has given you some good insights on how you can actually use this new technology. Because, as we've discussed in this episode, AI does not seem to be going away. It is truly a new thing that is here to stay, and we will all have to learn how to use it and use it well to our advantage. Also, if you love this episode, you can find all the timestamps, show notes, blog posts, links, and more on the website, newcastlefinance.us/podcast. And before I go, I do have a favor to ask. If you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts, you could please take some time and go to the show, and tap the number of stars that you think the show deserves because it helps other people find it and benefit from it as well. Thanks so much. Until next time!